Follow Main Street Monroe: Facebook Google+ Twitter

 
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Conflicted America
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Conflicted America

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Conflicted America
    Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:55am
Here's some charts from the pew center's polls over the month of February

First, most Americans believe that there should be some combination of spending cuts and tax increases. Primarily focused on spending cuts but most of them want increased revenue as well.






Ok so if we want to cut spending, where should we cut it? Surprise Surprise, nothing gets over 50% here:



(side note about foreign aid, Americans are almost completely ignorant of how much foreign aid we actually give and how much of our budget it really is, here's a hint, it's not a lot, less than 1% of the total budget. That just goes to show you how saliency works)


So apparently Americans can't decide what to cut and instead want to spend more and more. We elect politicians to figure out these tough questions but with both sides entrenched in absolutism and seemingly immovable, what does the American public think should happen? And who should get the blame?




So basically, Americans aren't sure what should happen, only that large amounts and close to majorities believe that both spending cuts and tax increases are necessary, if anything is to be cut, it should be foreign aid, however it would be better to delay the spending cuts and if not, it's the Republicans in Congress's fault.


And just to show you how quickly things can change, here's a chart that no one should be surprised to see.


Back to Top
MFD50 View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Dec 24 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MFD50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:13am
The worst part about foreign aid is that it seems like we give them the money today but tomorrow we are their worst enemies. I know it is not a lot compared to the rest of the budget but what is spent sure would help here at home first.
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:26am
Originally posted by MFD50 MFD50 wrote:

The worst part about foreign aid is that it seems like we give them the money today but tomorrow we are their worst enemies. I know it is not a lot compared to the rest of the budget but what is spent sure would help here at home first.


I think that's the common perception but I'm not sure that's actually true. Pakistan yes perhaps, but I'm not sure where else that's true. Especially with our food aid, though we need better marketing. 


We also have to remember the foreign aid is our single best non military way of diplomacy in the world. Talking is just talking, money/food changes things... see Egypt from 1979 til today.
Back to Top
blueblood View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 19 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 1:16pm
As long as we don't have a budget (absolutely astounding in todays age), base all budget decisions on baseline budgeting, and have a system that encourages each department to waste to increase the ensuing % in the following year, we will never get there. Calling cuts in spending "cuts" when they are reductions in increases is dishonest at best when your dealing with low information voters. There is no effort on either side to ever do what is right and therefore, nothing will ever change until we, as a country are subjected to, and go through much pain, which to date has not happened.
 
The country must be managed like a business, within reason, which hasn't happened or any thought of it happening in quite some time. The really sad part of this whole equation is, the stars have aligned for the first time in generations to have an American revolution of greatness return, but it is being choked and smothered till all it can do is sputter along running in place. Unless we wake up fast, and take meaningful corrective actions to fix the REAL problems facing us, we are in big trouble. I don't see that happening without the pain that must accompany the needed changes.
 
Spending has gone up 100% in ten years or so. How many out there can say the same for your household? It is truly criminal!


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 2:18pm
The country isn't a business. It's vastly different in every sense. I'm not sure the analogy works. 

Anyway though, here's a fun chart:




Back to Top
blueblood View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 19 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 2:37pm
I don't buy any of that stuff! Not a business? Really?That is exactly why there is little hope! It is the largest corporation in the world, operating only because it still has the capacity to print money!


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:

I don't buy any of that stuff! Not a business? Really?That is exactly why there is little hope! It is the largest corporation in the world, operating only because it still has the capacity to print money!


Please explain the similarities of a business and a country. 

I think running a country is similar to a business but much different. The number one reason is motivation. A business's goal is to make a profit. A country's is more focused on the safety, well-being, security and comfort of its citizens. 

A country also creates its own rules, follows only the laws that they decide to create and can control the economy in ways no business can.
Back to Top
blueblood View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 19 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 4:17pm
First, if you don't run a country like a business,  it will go bankrupt, like what the West is experiencing now.
 
 
This will shed light on the absolute necessity to operate in this manner at the 60,000 feet level. What is happening in Europe and what will happen here in the very near future is why we must come together and purge the political system of the cancer we now have before it is too late, and it almost already is, as we have politicians whom don't even grasp the question and assume (rightly so) that we are a nation too preoccupied to even care and certainly one whom doesn't grasp the severity of the situation at all. Granted, there are differences  in the two, but the basic principles apply always.


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain
Back to Top
bobpreston View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Feb 12 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bobpreston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:19pm
Cut this in half and it will save $500 Billion.

http://budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=34919307-6286-47ab-b114-2fd5bcedfeb5

The total amount spent on these 80-plus federal welfare programs amounts to roughly $1.03 trillion. Importantly, these figures solely refer to means-tested welfare benefits. They exclude entitlement programs to which people contribute (e.g., Social Security and Medicare).

Back to Top
Houndog View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council


Joined: Dec 31 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Houndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:50pm
If only the people making these decisions were effected by the outcome. What an amazing ironic mechanism the political powers of the world have become. Or, is it, always have been?
Back to Top
retiredmilitary View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 12 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1736
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote retiredmilitary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 5:44am
I just think it is funny everybody wants to blame the Republicans for this sequester but in the first two years of his presidency he had a Majority Democratic Congress and Senate.
 
And No Mention Of A Budget.
 
STOP THE BLAME GAME!!
 
 
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:38am
Originally posted by retiredmilitary retiredmilitary wrote:

I just think it is funny everybody wants to blame the Republicans for this sequester but in the first two years of his presidency he had a Majority Democratic Congress and Senate.
 
And No Mention Of A Budget.
 
STOP THE BLAME GAME!!
 
 

Well in fairness, he only had a very limited time with a filibuster proof senate. 

Anyway, I could care less about the blame. I just think that sequestration is the dumbest self-inflicted wound all of our politicians have ever done in my cognizant lifetime. I blame everyone for that, all of the politicians and everyone in America because we voted for them. Anyone who voted for the president (though I fully and very strongly believe that Obama is a million times better than Romney) or keeps voting for the same member of Congress every damn time. So everyone is at fault and hopefully some semblance of reason will come back and we'll stop the silly sequestration, raise the debt limit and then work on the larger aspects of getting our economy going again.
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:50am
Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:

First, if you don't run a country like a business,  it will go bankrupt, like what the West is experiencing now.
 
 
This will shed light on the absolute necessity to operate in this manner at the 60,000 feet level. What is happening in Europe and what will happen here in the very near future is why we must come together and purge the political system of the cancer we now have before it is too late, and it almost already is, as we have politicians whom don't even grasp the question and assume (rightly so) that we are a nation too preoccupied to even care and certainly one whom doesn't grasp the severity of the situation at all. Granted, there are differences  in the two, but the basic principles apply always.


Wow I just read that article. The author, in this article and many others, certainly seems to dislike democracy. Also some of his facts are wrong in other articles (ie: how much money do we really owe to the Chinese, people might be surprised... only 8% of total US debt, still largest foreign entity but only 8%)


Anyway sorry for that sidetrack. 

I disagree with that article because I disagree with the fundamental argument. The goals of a business and the goals of a country are vastly different. 

Should politicians take philosophies or strategies from the business sector? Of course they should, just as they should take them from the military sector and the religious sector (specifically feeding the poor but others as well and from all religions).

I just don't think this analogy works, it sounds good at first but when you think about it and look at the goals and motivations of each, I think it just falls. 
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:55am
Originally posted by bobpreston bobpreston wrote:

Cut this in half and it will save $500 Billion.

http://budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=34919307-6286-47ab-b114-2fd5bcedfeb5

The total amount spent on these 80-plus federal welfare programs amounts to roughly $1.03 trillion. Importantly, these figures solely refer to means-tested welfare benefits. They exclude entitlement programs to which people contribute (e.g., Social Security and Medicare).


Maybe you should check out this video here Bob


Back to Top
blueblood View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 19 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:19am
One thing is crystal clear for anyone but the devote left winger or the low information voter. Obama can be called many things, but never accurately a LEADER! He has no intention of compromising, governing, problem solving or anything that doesn't promote the agenda he is hell bent on furthering, as he feels more desperate to put in place as his time runs shorter. He will/is making the sequester as painful as can possible  be, refusing any attempt by the GOP to aid in spreading the cuts to areas where it wouldn't even be noticed.
 
By almost everyone's estimate whom has reviewed government waste, there is 300-500 billion in total waste and unnecessary spending that could be whacked without anyone noticing. By Obama's own admission when selling the plague called Obama care, he was going to fix some of the government waste to pay for it, but instead, he created all that much more.
 
None paid any attention to the cut last two minutes of Romney's speech on the 47% because it didn't go with the left wing rhetoric, but it was the most important thing he said! The Chinese won't buy our bonds anymore because they have 0 confidence of ever recouping their money! That should scare the hell out of anybody paying attention! Unfortunately, few are.
 
Sequestration is not the way to run a government or a business, but when dealing with Obama, he must be stopped and this is the only way it can be done. We made the biggest mistake in history when he was re-elected and we may not recover from this blunder, in a recognizable form.


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 11:03am
Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:

One thing is crystal clear for anyone but the devote left winger or the low information voter. Obama can be called many things, but never accurately a LEADER! He has no intention of compromising, governing, problem solving or anything that doesn't promote the agenda he is hell bent on furthering, as he feels more desperate to put in place as his time runs shorter. He will/is making the sequester as painful as can possible  be, refusing any attempt by the GOP to aid in spreading the cuts to areas where it wouldn't even be noticed.
 
By almost everyone's estimate whom has reviewed government waste, there is 300-500 billion in total waste and unnecessary spending that could be whacked without anyone noticing. By Obama's own admission when selling the plague called Obama care, he was going to fix some of the government waste to pay for it, but instead, he created all that much more.
 
None paid any attention to the cut last two minutes of Romney's speech on the 47% because it didn't go with the left wing rhetoric, but it was the most important thing he said! The Chinese won't buy our bonds anymore because they have 0 confidence of ever recouping their money! That should scare the hell out of anybody paying attention! Unfortunately, few are.
 
Sequestration is not the way to run a government or a business, but when dealing with Obama, he must be stopped and this is the only way it can be done. We made the biggest mistake in history when he was re-elected and we may not recover from this blunder, in a recognizable form.


Yikes!

Well I feel like this is where we end our discussion blueblood lol! I think we're too diametrically opposed on these issues. We'll never get each other to believe in our views lol. 
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 11:06am
p.s. isn't it nice that Congress decided to take the day off today and nearly all members flew home for the weekend already?
Back to Top
retiredmilitary View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 12 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1736
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote retiredmilitary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 12:11pm
Funny you said this MAtt:
 
"Well in fairness, he only had a very limited time with a filibuster proof senate."
 
Just as much time as the current congress and yet blame them OK Got you!! LOL
 
p.s. Also wasn't it funny the President was gone during December's crisis only to spend tax payers dollars to fly to Washington then fly back to Hawaii the back to Washington. Really looking out for the tax payers' huh!!
 
 
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by retiredmilitary retiredmilitary wrote:

Funny you said this MAtt:
 
"Well in fairness, he only had a very limited time with a filibuster proof senate."
 
Just as much time as the current congress and yet blame them OK Got you!! LOL
 
p.s. Also wasn't it funny the President was gone during December's crisis only to spend tax payers dollars to fly to Washington then fly back to Hawaii the back to Washington. Really looking out for the tax payers' huh!!
 
 


How many days during December do you think Congress worked? I'm not talking about spending taxpayers money to fly around the country. I'm talking about being in session and actually sitting down and doing work that is needed.


No, Obama had a filibuster proof majority for somewhere around 72 days. You need 60 seats to break a filibuster. Ted Kennedy was sick and absent a lot (and then he died), the Senate race in Minnesota was undecided (remember how long it took Al Franken to be sworn in? here's a hint, MONTHS) and Robert Byrd was sick and absent a lot. 

So no, he didn't really have a filibuster proof majority.

I also don't believe that I have said that I solely blame the Republicans in Congress. 50% of Americans put the blame on them, but I would fall into the category of "blame both of them" (and blame all American voters).
Back to Top
Matt_Steele View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Mar 07 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 3475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:44pm
Before you go Obama bashing about the amount of time he works.... this chart might help




Now of course members of Congress are working on some of the days they're not in session....

That said, seems like there's a lot of time that could be used to meet and try to work something out. 

Everyone is at fault. Trying to pin it all on one side is foolish. Compromise isn't a dirty word. It's literally what founded this country.
Back to Top
Houndog View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council


Joined: Dec 31 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Houndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:44pm
Exactly my point. That was ignored. They do not care. Because their actions do not effect them.
Back to Top
blueblood View Drop Down
Voice Council
Voice Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 19 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:14pm


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain
Back to Top
bobpreston View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Feb 12 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobpreston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Before you go Obama bashing about the amount of time he works.... this chart might help

Now of course members of Congress are working on some of the days they're not in session....

That said, seems like there's a lot of time that could be used to meet and try to work something out. 

Everyone is at fault. Trying to pin it all on one side is foolish. Compromise isn't a dirty word. It's literally what founded this country.

Obama gave them a whole 7 minutes of his precious time, wow guess his golf clubs were getting lonely.
Back to Top
mom4kids View Drop Down
Voice Citizen
Voice Citizen


Joined: Apr 27 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 465
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mom4kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 03 2013 at 8:52am
In my job, our sequester effect is seven days spread throughout the remaining fiscal year.  We will end our second quarter March 31.  Seven days of unpaid leave over seven months.  Who really cares.  Its a drop in the bucket.  No one is wringing their hands about their jobs.  

There should be a budget.  There should have been a budget several years ago.  We have been working off a continuing resolutions for more than 3 years.  There has been NO action taken until now.  The politicans have not acted and so now the process will.  Let it go.  Its the most positive action we (taxpayers) have had in three years.
Back to Top
MFD50 View Drop Down
Prominent Voice Citizen
Prominent Voice Citizen


Joined: Dec 24 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MFD50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 03 2013 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Originally posted by MFD50 MFD50 wrote:

The worst part about foreign aid is that it seems like we give them the money today but tomorrow we are their worst enemies. I know it is not a lot compared to the rest of the budget but what is spent sure would help here at home first.


I think that's the common perception but I'm not sure that's actually true. Pakistan yes perhaps, but I'm not sure where else that's true. Especially with our food aid, though we need better marketing. 


We also have to remember the foreign aid is our single best non military way of diplomacy in the world. Talking is just talking, money/food changes things... see Egypt from 1979 til today.
 
We are the government that financed the start of Osama Bin Landen's personal war. We gave him money and weapons to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and then he later turns them on our own people.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

The Voice | Weather | Advertisers | Advertising Information | Lending Library | Monroe Church Directory

Archived Monroe News From: 1999 | 2000 | 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011

Website Design © Xponex Web and Media Services | Contact | Terms of Use | Copyright ©2012 MainStreetMonroe.com