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Matt_Steele View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 13 2014 at 9:53pm
What is happening there is substantial government overreach. The local police are arresting reporters now too. Denying nearly all 1st amendment rights. 

Where are the conservatives who fear a police state? Where are the people who worry that the government is taking away our rights? Where are the news media organizations? They only started covering it TONIGHT because a couple reporters were roughed up and arrested (for eating at a McDonalds mind you). Apparently it was "for their safety"


If Twitter didn't exist, would anyone even know what is happening? 

I think we have more military grade weapons and armament on the ground in Ferguson than in any other place in the world. This is not de-escalating the problem. This is making it worse and I fear that more people are going to die.

But one question remains... where is everybody?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2014 at 9:56pm
Where are the politicians? Why are they so scared to say ANYTHING about this situation!? 

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http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

In case anyone wants to see the police break up peaceful protests right now. Lots of rubber bullets, lots of tear gas, very little media. 

Militarized police are tear-gassing U.S. citizens and now refusing to let media cover the situation. In America.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2014 at 10:20pm

All of this repression, because the police killed a kid and the community wants answers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MElass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2014 at 10:26pm
What a complete rat's nest! How can the local authorities get away with this!?!? Rioting and looting is not the answer but neither is a police/political coverup. In my opinion this is FAR FAR worse than the Martin-Zimmerman case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:15am
Military veterans tweeting about how they had/have less fire power while in Iraq (or elsewhere):


Also about how the tactics of the Ferguson PD are very ineffective
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:31am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/13/white-house-spokesman-tweets-while-ferguson-erupts-a-good-time-was-had-by-all/?hpid=z2


And here's our elected officials doing nothing but "having a good time" while Ferguson erupts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrock1203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 9:07am
Those conservatives you're looking for? It's a nonwhite kid that got shot, they won't show up.

I'll bet money on it.
Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong. - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 10:28am

Here are the police deciding that the media shouldn't cover this. By the way, there's a video of the cops shooting tear gas in their direction, so you don't just think that maybe they were too close to the action. 

(though even if they were, the police are removing their equipment too)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 11:13am
My friend asked this.

Are we this eager to protest when we hear of murders in our communities . Have we become comfortable with murder as long as its amongst citizens ? But if murdered by authorities it's less acceptable? Where are you with this thought process?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 11:17am
Originally posted by zapp2525 zapp2525 wrote:

My friend asked this.

Are we this eager to protest when we hear of murders in our communities . Have we become comfortable with murder as long as its amongst citizens ? But if murdered by authorities it's less acceptable? Where are you with this thought process?

I think there's a difference between being innocent and shot by someone else in the community and being innocent and shot by someone who is supposed to be protecting and serving you. 

There's a notion that in the first situation, there's a possibility that the killer will get justice. There are definitely protests when that doesn't happen (IE: George Zimmerman for some people, or anytime someone from a wealthy family murders a non-wealthy person).

However when the police or authorities kill someone (especially when there is a long history in this country of police killing unarmed black men), then a lot of people feel that there's a much smaller chance that the killer is brought to justice.


Over all though, we are a bit too comfortable with murder. Especially mass murder. We can't even do anything when small children are gunned down. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 11:18am
Conflicting reports now though indicated the St Louis County police are being relieved. Sounds like the State police and Federal officials are taking over. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 11:39am
When was the last protest in Cincinnati when there was a shooting in Avondale between citizens ?

People need to come forward when they see stuff going down in their neighborhood, not watch what happens and know who did it and stay silent.  Nothing will change if you don't make an effort for it to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 12:05pm
Come forward to who?   The cops? That seems like it ought to go well.

The same police that are arresting journalists and spraying them with gas?   Yeah ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 12:18pm
I'm not just talking about Ferguson MO

Crap goes down in every city and it's citizens sit on the porch and watch and then stay silent.

Amazing how people can get shot with a bunch of people around and no one see anything.


The first thing that needs to happen in MO is for the cops to put the weapons down and not treat the citizens as criminals.
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America Is Not For Black People


The United States of America is not for black people. We know this, and then we put it out of our minds, and then something happens to remind us. Saturday, in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, Mo., something like that happened: An unarmed 18-year-old black man was executed by police in broad daylight.

By now, what's happening in Ferguson is about so many second-order issues—systemic racism, the militarization of police work, and how citizens can redress grievances, among other things—that it's worth remembering what actually happened here.

Michael Brown was walking down the middle of the street in Ferguson's Canfield Green apartment complex around noon on Saturday with his friend Dorin Johnson when the two were approached by a police officer in a police truck. The officer exchanged words with the boys. The officer attempted to get out of his car. At this point, two narratives split.

According to the still-unnamed officer, one of the two boys shoved him back into the vehicle and then wrestled for his sidearm, discharging one shot into the cabin. The two ran, and the police officer once again stepped from his vehicle and shot at the fleeing teenagers multiple times, killing Brown.

According to Johnson and other eye witnesses, however, the cop ordered the friends to "get the on the sidewalk," but the teenagers said they had almost reached their destination. That's when the officer slammed his door open so hard that it bounced off of Brown and closed again. The cop then reached out and grabbed Brown by the neck, then by the shirt.

"I'm gonna shoot you," the cop said.

The cop shot him once, but Brown pulled away, and the pair were still able to run away together. The officer fired again. Johnson ducked behind a car, but the cop's second shot caused Brown to stop about 35 feet away from the cruiser, still within touching distance of Johnson. Multiple witnesses say this is when Brown raised his hands in the air to show he was unarmed. Johnson remembered that Brown also said, "I don't have a gun, stop shooting!" The officer then shot him dead.

After that, the narratives dovetail again. Brown was left where he died, baking in the Missouri heat for hours, before he was removed by authorities. The officer was placed on paid administrative leave.


Michael Brown is not special. In all its specificity, the 18-year old's death remains just the most recent example of police officers killing unarmed black men.

Part of the reason we're seeing so many black men killed is that police officers are now best understood less as members of communities, dedicated to keeping peace within them, than as domestic soldiers. The drug war has long functioned as a full-employment act for arms dealers looking to sell every town and village in the country on the need for military-grade hardware, and 9/11 made things vastly worse, with local police departments throughout America grabbing for cash to better defend against any and all terrorist threats. War had reached our shores, we were told, and police officers needed weaponry to fight it.

Officers have tanks now. They have drones. They have automatic rifles, and planes, and helicopters, and they go through military-style boot camp training. It's a constant complaint from what remains of this country's civil liberties caucus. Just this last June, the ACLU issued a report on how police departments now possess arsenals in need of a use. Few paid attention, as usually happens.

The worst part of outfitting our police officers as soldiers has been psychological. Give a man access to drones, tanks, and body armor, and he'll reasonably think that his job isn't simply to maintain peace, but to eradicate danger. Instead of protecting and serving, police are searching and destroying.

If officers are soldiers, it follows that the neighborhoods they patrol are battlefields. And if they're working battlefields, it follows that the population is the enemy. And because of correlations, rooted in historical injustice, between crime and income and income and race, the enemy population will consist largely of people of color, and especially of black men. Throughout the country, police officers are capturing, imprisoning, and killing black males at a ridiculous clip, waging a very literal war on people like Michael Brown.


"There's a long history of racial tension and misunderstanding in this region," St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Aisha Sultan told me over the phone yesterday. "Especially on the north side."

This sort of thing—especially on the north side—is what gets glossed over a little too easily when we try to fit a particular incident into a broader narrative. Ferguson is a small town of 21,000, mostly white until the 1960s, when whites fled anywhere but where they were. Today, Ferguson, which is a bit north of St. Louis, is mostly black; Ferguson and St. Louis County police are mostly white. That fits a metropolitan area flanked by two rivers that divide neighborhoods and regions by race, the sixth-most segregated in the United States.

To people, like me, from the coast—I'm from Maryland—St. Louis can seem like a blank in the the middle of the country, a place where people and even ideas get stuck on the way to somewhere better, or at least somewhere else. But St. Louis is like New York (the fourth-most segregated metro in America), or Los Angeles, or Miami, or Dallas, or Washington, DC, only more so. Far from a blank, St. Louis is often regarded as the most American of America's cities.

"It is a microcosm of the rest of the country," Sultan said. "If this can happen in St. Louis, it can happen in any city."

It does. On August 5 in Beavercreek, Ohio, 22-year-old John Crawford was killed in a Walmart when a toy gun he had picked up from inside the store was apparently mistaken for a real gun. LeeCee Johnson, who had two children with Crawford, said that she was on the phone with him, and that his last words before she heard gunshots from police officers were, "It's not real."

On July 17 in Staten Island, New York, 43-year-old Eric Garner, a well-known presence in the neighborhood who sold illicit cigarettes and kept an eye on the block, was killed after breaking up a fight when NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo used an illegal chokehold on the asthmatic man. "I can't breathe," he said, before he died. "I can't breathe."

On the night of September 14, 2013 in Charlotte, N.C., 24-year-old Jonathan Ferrell was killed after getting into a car accident. He climbed out of the rear window of the car, stumbled to the nearest house, and banged on the door for help. The homeowner notified the police, who showed up to the house. Ferrell was tased, and then an officer named Randall Kerrick shot and struck Ferrell 10 times.

There was Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., and Oscar Grant in Oakland, Calif., and so many more. Michael Brown's death wasn't shocking at all. All over the country, unarmed black men are being killed by the very people who have sworn to protect them, as has been going on for a very long time now. It would appear that cops are not for black people, either.


After Brown's death came his demonization. First, we heard that Brown had run for stealing candy from a store. Then we were bombarded with a photo of Brown in a red Nike tank top on a stoop, posing for the camera.

America Is Not For Black PeopleExpand

This photo, in which Brown was flashing a "gang sign"—a peace sign, actually—was presented as proof that the teenager was a thug; his friends and family now not only have to work through their grief, but against a posthumous slur campaign. Johnson described his friend in an MSNBC interview as cool and quiet. Brown's uncle, Bernard Ewings, said in a Sunday interview that Brown loved music. Brown's mother, Leslie McSpadden, said that he was funny and could make people laugh. He graduated from high school in the spring, and was headed to college to pursue a career in heating and cooling engineering. Monday would have been his first day.

By all accounts, Brown was One Of The Good Ones. But laying all this out, explaining all the ways in which he didn't deserve to die like a dog in the street, is in itself disgraceful. Arguing whether Brown was a good kid or not is functionally arguing over whether he specifically deserved to die, a way of acknowledging that some black men ought to be executed.

To even acknowledge this line of debate is to start a larger argument about the worth, the very personhood, of a black man in America. It's to engage in a cost-benefit analysis, weigh probabilities, and gauge the precise odds that Brown's life was worth nothing against the threat he posed to the life of the man who killed him. It's to deny that there are structural reasons why Brown was shot dead while James Eagan Holmes—who on July 20, 2012, walked into a movie theater and fired rounds into an audience, killing 12 and wounding 70 more—was taken alive.

To ascribe this entirely to contempt for black men is to miss an essential variable, though—a very real, American fear of them. They—we—are inexplicably seen as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest. There are reasons why white gun's rights activists can walk into a Chipotle restaurant with assault rifles and be seen as gauche nuisances while unarmed black men are killed for reaching for their wallets or cell phones, or carrying children's toys. Guns aren't for black people, either.


Sunday was Brown's vigil, and several hundred people congregated in Ferguson. They began to march toward the Ferguson police station in protest. Police met them in full riot gear, with rifles, shields, helmets, dogs, and gas masks. Protesters yelled, "No justice, no peace!" They called the police murderers. They raised their hands in mock surrender, saying, "Don't shoot, I'm unarmed."

And then the protest turned violent, as some citizens began to break into, loot, and set fire to storefronts in their own community.

Police officers shot tear gas and rubber bullets. Thirty-two people were arrested that night. Two policemen were injured. There was nothing easy to make of it. It was a senseless and counterproductive attack on the community; it was the grief-stricken flailing of people who knew it could have been them, or their friends, or their brothers or sons. Whatever it was, it was met with force.

On Monday morning, Sultan went back to Ferguson, where she witnessed citizens cleaning up debris from the night before. Some were shocked by the violence; others said that they'd been backed against a wall, forced into necessary evil. Sultan interviewed an 11-year-old boy about the rioting. "It seems like police are about to go to war with the people," he said.*

On Monday night, police again took the streets as demonstrators again marched in nonviolent protest, holding their hands high. Police again fired rubber bullets and tear gas, and again blocked off the main streets, not allowing anyone in or out. Police were photographed sweeping into side streets, and pointing guns over fences into backyards. It spilled over into today. They ran helicopters and drones over all of it; they shot tear gas; they ran up on citizens with guns drawn.

America Is Not For Black PeopleExpand

"Return to your homes," they yelled over megaphones.

"This is our home," the people of Ferguson answered. There wasn't—there isn't—much more to say.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by zapp2525 zapp2525 wrote:

When was the last protest in Cincinnati when there was a shooting in Avondale between citizens ?

People need to come forward when they see stuff going down in their neighborhood, not watch what happens and know who did it and stay silent.  Nothing will change if you don't make an effort for it to change.

Well again, it's different when citizens kill each other than when trained police officers whose very job is to serve and protect kill unarmed innocent people. 

That said, historically, there's ample reason for citizens to not believe that the police would do anything about crime in their neighborhood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 4:20pm
Though I disagree with a lot of his policies, Rand Paul absolutely nails it here: http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/

About 400 times better than Obama's incredibly weak response
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MElass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 4:30pm
Matt, too true. 
And now I am removing myself from this topic.  I will go and weep for my country. 
This is way, way beyond the pale.  I have to say, if what I have read is true, this particular police officer absolutely should be tried for murder.  And the Ferguson, Mo. Police Department needs a VERY thorough house cleaning.
 
Now I will go and cry!!
 
BUT!!!  Do NOT let it be said that I think "the sky is falling."   I am sad and I think we really need a good "smack in the face"  (maybe not what I really am trying to say!)  BUT  we are STILL, STILL, AMERICA---the greatest country ever.  We just need to rise to our once and future greatness.   
 :( :( :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by MElass MElass wrote:

Matt, too true. 
And now I am removing myself from this topic.  I will go and weep for my country. 
This is way, way beyond the pale.  I have to say, if what I have read is true, this particular police officer absolutely should be tried for murder.  And the Ferguson, Mo. Police Department needs a VERY thorough house cleaning.
 
Now I will go and cry!!
 
BUT!!!  Do NOT let it be said that I think "the sky is falling."   I am sad and I think we really need a good "smack in the face"  (maybe not what I really am trying to say!)  BUT  we are STILL, STILL, AMERICA---the greatest country ever.  We just need to rise to our once and future greatness.   
 :( :( :(

I don't think you're being chicken little here. 

However I urge you not to remove yourself from the topic. It's important that everyone is engaged on this issue I think. 

This is probably the only issue that you'll find people like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Elizabeth Warren, Claire MsCaskill (sp?) all agree on, despite their wildly different political views.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 5:35pm
the above post is not the kind of post I respond to and say the skall is falling.

There is a CLEAR difference when I chime in with that.

and unfortunately this problem has VERY little to do with Ferguson.  It could happen anywhere.  This time it's Ferguson next time it's Norwood, OH or Middletown, OH.

Heck it's already happened in Ohio this month.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:30pm
You talking about the one in here in Cincinnati where the cops pulled over a car and the dude got out and was running from the cops and had a gun on him.

I guess stop means stop to certain people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by zapp2525 zapp2525 wrote:

You talking about the one in here in Cincinnati where the cops pulled over a car and the dude got out and was running from the cops and had a gun on him.

I guess stop means stop to certain people.

Nah I think he's talking about this:


Crawford, 22, was at a Wal-Mart store in the Dayton suburb of Beavercreek, Ohio last week. He reportedly picked up a toy rifle within the store and was carrying it around the store while talking on his cell phone, which alarmed other shoppers who called the police. The police station reports that when officers arrived, they asked Crawford to put down the weapon, and opened fire when he failed to comply. He later died of his gun shot wounds at a nearby hospital, where his death was ruled a homicide by the Montgomery County coroner’s office. Family members of Crawford told local news that he entered the store unarmed, and picked up a toy gun or BB gun while browsing in the store. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:40pm
Ferguson, last night vs tonight


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2014 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Originally posted by zapp2525 zapp2525 wrote:

You talking about the one in here in Cincinnati where the cops pulled over a car and the dude got out and was running from the cops and had a gun on him.

I guess stop means stop to certain people.

Nah I think he's talking about this:


Crawford, 22, was at a Wal-Mart store in the Dayton suburb of Beavercreek, Ohio last week. He reportedly picked up a toy rifle within the store and was carrying it around the store while talking on his cell phone, which alarmed other shoppers who called the police. The police station reports that when officers arrived, they asked Crawford to put down the weapon, and opened fire when he failed to comply. He later died of his gun shot wounds at a nearby hospital, where his death was ruled a homicide by the Montgomery County coroner’s office. Family members of Crawford told local news that he entered the store unarmed, and picked up a toy gun or BB g
un while browsing in the store. 



Yes this is what I was referring too. 
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