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Every state favors illegal immigration citizenship

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Matt_Steele View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 25 2015 at 10:46am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/02/25/a-majority-in-every-state-favors-a-path-to-citizenship-for-illegal-immigrants/

A majority in every state favors a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. At least 52% of every state.

Some of the more "red" states like Utah and Kansas were among the highest in favor.
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John Beagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 25 2015 at 10:57am
Sample size is too small on this to reach such a conclusion. 52k over 50 states is not enough data.

Also the question is skewed. 

"How should the immigration system deal with immigrants who are currently living here in the U.S. illegally?  The immigration should: allow them a way to become citizens provided they meet certain requirements; allow them to become permanent legal residents, but not citizens; or identify and deport them?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 25 2015 at 11:24am
I'm for a path to citizenship, not a free pass to citizenship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 25 2015 at 4:16pm
Talk about spinning an onion paper thin "poll" by a rinky-dink organization in the best possible light for the liberal position, lol.  The question is so vague and open-ended, you could argue we already have a path to citizenship between the laws currently on the books and Obama's skirting of Congress with his latest fatwa on immigration.  

Rest assured, the vast majority are not interested in anything like what this administration really wants to do with our borders and current immigration policy.
If it matters, seek the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapp2525 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 7:50am
Policy Confused whats that ?
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Matt_Steele View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by John Beagle John Beagle wrote:

Sample size is too small on this to reach such a conclusion. 52k over 50 states is not enough data.

Also the question is skewed. 

"How should the immigration system deal with immigrants who are currently living here in the U.S. illegally?  The immigration should: allow them a way to become citizens provided they meet certain requirements; allow them to become permanent legal residents, but not citizens; or identify and deport them?"


Actually 52k is WAY more than enough for a sample size. Mathematically speaking. 

Most polls and research have between 1500 and 4000 responses, so 52000 is very sufficient. 

How is the question skewed or biased?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

Talk about spinning an onion paper thin "poll" by a rinky-dink organization in the best possible light for the liberal position, lol.  The question is so vague and open-ended, you could argue we already have a path to citizenship between the laws currently on the books and Obama's skirting of Congress with his latest fatwa on immigration.  

Rest assured, the vast majority are not interested in anything like what this administration really wants to do with our borders and current immigration policy.

Talk about a lot of words de-valuing a scientifically sound poll without really offering concrete examples of why it is wrong or how the question is vague. Also, how is this organization "rinky dink"? Because they find results that show things that you don't want to believe?

The poll had nothing to do with the president's policies. The question was very simple. How should we handle immigrants in the country. Three choices: citizenship, legal status but not citizenship, or deport them.

Can you and Beagle please explain what was wrong with that question? Can you offer me a better way of stating it? 

I can show you a very solid poll done by a organization whose methodology is as sound as any other poll. What can you show me?

(Speaking of the President's plans though, over 50% of Americans approve of his plan. Can you show me otherwise? http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/politics/cnn-immigration-poll/)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by zapp2525 zapp2525 wrote:

I'm for a path to citizenship, not a free pass to citizenship.

I think quite a few people would agree with you on that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 7:01pm
FYI John Beagle


Anything over 10,000 respondents and your margin of error is less than 1%
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

FYI John Beagle


Anything over 10,000 respondents and your margin of error is less than 1%
 
All poll questions are not created equal.  You know this Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 26 2015 at 8:39pm
What to do with the lawbreakers already here is just one part of the immigration problem which is what that poll addresses.  Americans don't view immigration as one simple issue.  Take a look at this series of polls by Gallup and it's clear they view dealing with the current crop of illegals as a necessary evil.  But to pretend everyone is happy about it is quite naive.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx 

41% want immigration levels decreased.
43% say it's extremely important to control the borders and halt the flow of illegals.  7% said not important.
83% want to tighten security at the borders.
33% say present day immigration is a bad thing.
72% want them to learn English. 

There's a pattern here:  deal with the problem and take steps to stop it from happening again.
If it matters, seek the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 27 2015 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

FYI John Beagle


Anything over 10,000 respondents and your margin of error is less than 1%
 
All poll questions are not created equal.  You know this Matt.

Sure, but can you explain what was wrong with this one?
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Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

What to do with the lawbreakers already here is just one part of the immigration problem which is what that poll addresses.  Americans don't view immigration as one simple issue.  Take a look at this series of polls by Gallup and it's clear they view dealing with the current crop of illegals as a necessary evil.  But to pretend everyone is happy about it is quite naive.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx 

41% want immigration levels decreased.
43% say it's extremely important to control the borders and halt the flow of illegals.  7% said not important.
83% want to tighten security at the borders.
33% say present day immigration is a bad thing.
72% want them to learn English. 

There's a pattern here:  deal with the problem and take steps to stop it from happening again.

Ok and now you can add that 50%+ want the ones currently in the country to be able to have a path to citizenship
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 27 2015 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

What to do with the lawbreakers already here is just one part of the immigration problem which is what that poll addresses.  Americans don't view immigration as one simple issue.  Take a look at this series of polls by Gallup and it's clear they view dealing with the current crop of illegals as a necessary evil.  But to pretend everyone is happy about it is quite naive.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx 

41% want immigration levels decreased.
43% say it's extremely important to control the borders and halt the flow of illegals.  7% said not important.
83% want to tighten security at the borders.
33% say present day immigration is a bad thing.
72% want them to learn English. 

There's a pattern here:  deal with the problem and take steps to stop it from happening again.

Ok and now you can add that 50%+ want the ones currently in the country to be able to have a path to citizenship

Yeah, but what's your point?  Why are you trumpeting this poll?  I think you think it means more than it does.  Most Americans agree we have to do something with the illegals who are already here since it's not feasible to deport them all.  Most people agree on that point.  So what?  If you're interpreting this as any sort of broad support for open borders, you couldn't be more wrong.   
If it matters, seek the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 27 2015 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

What to do with the lawbreakers already here is just one part of the immigration problem which is what that poll addresses.  Americans don't view immigration as one simple issue.  Take a look at this series of polls by Gallup and it's clear they view dealing with the current crop of illegals as a necessary evil.  But to pretend everyone is happy about it is quite naive.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx 

41% want immigration levels decreased.
43% say it's extremely important to control the borders and halt the flow of illegals.  7% said not important.
83% want to tighten security at the borders.
33% say present day immigration is a bad thing.
72% want them to learn English. 

There's a pattern here:  deal with the problem and take steps to stop it from happening again.

Ok and now you can add that 50%+ want the ones currently in the country to be able to have a path to citizenship

Yeah, but what's your point?  Why are you trumpeting this poll?  I think you think it means more than it does.  Most Americans agree we have to do something with the illegals who are already here since it's not feasible to deport them all.  Most people agree on that point.  So what?  If you're interpreting this as any sort of broad support for open borders, you couldn't be more wrong.   

I don't believe that I've said anything about the significance. I don't believe that a poll question framed in that manner really influences policy makers that much. 

My overall point was that the majority of US citizens want any immigration plan to start with a path to citizenship. The details of the "best" path are much more nuanced and likely to be heavily influenced by party labels. This poll doesn't claim to go into that realm. It just simply asks which of these options do you prefer for immigrants.

Once policy makers start at that level, then they can find more broad support for their plans. But if some people refuse to acknowledge that a significant amount (over the majority) of citizens want to start at a path to citizenship, then they won't be able to pass any of their legislation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 27 2015 at 4:03pm
Why not ask a real unbiased question such as:

Do you think it's fair to allow illegals to circumvent our immigration laws while others who follow the law have to wait?

Should the President uphold the law of the land or should he be allowed to change the law without congress or the courts?

There are 3 branches of government in our country. They stand for a check and balance. Do you think one branch of government should supersede the other two?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 27 2015 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:


I don't believe that I've said anything about the significance. I don't believe that a poll question framed in that manner really influences policy makers that much. 
Then why highlight it by posting it here?  

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Once policy makers start at that level, then they can find more broad support for their plans. But if some people refuse to acknowledge that a significant amount (over the majority) of citizens want to start at a path to citizenship, then they won't be able to pass any of their legislation. 

Baloney.  This is just the plan being foisted on them.  They would prefer to start with securing the border so we aren't back in the same mess in another 15-20 years and THEN deal with the people who are here.  But the Dems aren't interested in closing the border and the R's don't have the guts. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2015 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by John Beagle John Beagle wrote:

Why not ask a real unbiased question such as:

Do you think it's fair to allow illegals to circumvent our immigration laws while others who follow the law have to wait?

Should the President uphold the law of the land or should he be allowed to change the law without congress or the courts?

There are 3 branches of government in our country. They stand for a check and balance. Do you think one branch of government should supersede the other two?

 


Haha I can't tell if you're joking or not. I mean, obviously these aren't unbiased questions. No polling institution in the country would accept these questions as valid. Have you ever heard of "leading the witness?" 

You still haven't pointed out what was wrong with the original question. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2015 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:


I don't believe that I've said anything about the significance. I don't believe that a poll question framed in that manner really influences policy makers that much. 
Then why highlight it by posting it here?  

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

Once policy makers start at that level, then they can find more broad support for their plans. But if some people refuse to acknowledge that a significant amount (over the majority) of citizens want to start at a path to citizenship, then they won't be able to pass any of their legislation. 

Baloney.  This is just the plan being foisted on them.  They would prefer to start with securing the border so we aren't back in the same mess in another 15-20 years and THEN deal with the people who are here.  But the Dems aren't interested in closing the border and the R's don't have the guts. 


I posted it here to point out that most of the people in the country support a path to citizenship. I think that's interesting news and probably surprising to a lot of people on here. I can tell by the defensive reactions this post got that some people are having a hard time thinking that maybe that's how the majority of America thinks right now.


Also did you know that 1.56 million people were stopped at the border in 1999 but only 356,000 were stopped in 2013 despite more border agents etc. Immigration across our southern border has slowed considerably. 

What mess are you talking about? Immigrants were not the cause of nor had any role in any of the US's recent economic problems. Contrary to how much people are talking about it, we're not dealing with an overflow of US immigrants. Immigration policy definitely needs reforming but it's not a crisis point. 
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