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Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:

I don't have time right now to find all of the numbers (hopefully I'll be less busy in the afternoon) but if your argument is that college athletics are not profitable or make money for schools, you're going to lose. 


I don't have a dog in this hunt. I just recalled reading articles over the years about the perceived disconnect from between perception and reality of college sports when I was attacked for no reason other than a dissenting opinion.

But, upon further review of the numbers, it is a losing proposition and if not for donors to the sports programs, they would not come close to functioning as they currently do with a chunk of change coming from rich alumni.


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Here's a news story that just came out the other day. Yes colleges don't always make a profit from sports because they spend most of their revenue. But they take in a ton of revenue. If they started paying the athletes, then that spending will have to be adjusted, no longer will college football coaches be the highest paid state employee and the locker rooms will probably be a bit more basic.

Also, the NCAA took in just under a BILLION dollars last year. So again, if you started paying athletes, you'd have to adjust the spending levels and who gets what money. 

http://deadspin.com/alabama-athletics-earn-more-than-all-30-nhl-teams-1560555985

The Alabama Crimson Tide athletics department earns revenues of $143 million dollars.According to Marc Edelman, a professor of sports and antitrust law at CUNY, that is more than all 30 NHL teams and 25 NBA teams. While not the craziest thing you've ever heard, it does crystallize something you've probably always known on some level: amateur sports is better business than professional sports.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 08 2014 at 2:00pm
WOW. Revenue is not profit! Again. I think an economics class is warranted. Look at the whole picture and get back with me. I thought you wouldn't be able to find anything but what I had reported earlier! You're just re-reporting what I had already posted!


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Of course revenue is not profit. Did you read what I had said before the article I posted? Did you read the article I linked to?

They take in a substantial amount of revenue. They also spend a lot of it. To pay college athletes they will have to adjust what they're spending their money on (ie: not give as high of salaries to coaches, not built enormous state of the art stadiums as often, not upgrade the locker rooms all of the time).

Also, they might have to restructure how much money the NCAA is getting vs the individual colleges. They might need to re-evaluate media contracts and sponsorship rates etc. 
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No, I only read what you posted. sorry. Had to go. Did you read what I posted? If you take away rich alumni donations, every team in the country loses money! I had read this for years, but everyone wants to think they make billions! Not true.Or else, I could find nothing that says that is the case!

What you posted is less informative and pretty much what I posted, now that I read it, but again, it tries to lead you to believe something that just isn't so, just like CM.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 08 2014 at 4:49pm

There is plenty of money to go around.  It just needs to be redistributed more fairly.  You know; because not paying your labor pool is well....not cool.

Don't worry while the admins and others line their pockets at UConn those players that actually put in all the work and earned the money are being paid by receiving a quality education in return. 


well maybe not
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/7/5590682/uconns-basketball-team-graduates-8-percent-of-players

UConn basketball's dirty secret


The University of Connecticut Huskies made a triumphant return to the NCAA tournament this year — winning the national championship Monday night — after the school was barred from competition in 2013 for poor academic performance.

But UConn's graduation rate for male basketball players is still the worst of any team in the 2014 tournament.

UConn graduates 8 percent of its players, according to the most recent NCAA statistics. To put it another way: of the 12 players who started as freshmen eight years ago, exactly one managed to finish a college degree or leave UConn in good academic standing.

UConn's terrible graduation rate is an outlier for the tournament

Graduation_rates_for_final_four_teams

The University of Florida, whom the Huskies beat to advance to the championship, has a graduation success rate of 60 percent; the University of Kentucky, playing UConn tonight, has a graduation rate of 82 percent.

Last year, UConn was barred from the NCAA tournament due to poor academic performance.

Student-athletes — and their academic achievement, or lack thereof — are unique in higher education. Colleges don't face penalties if the 19 million students who aren't student-athletes don't make progress, or if they don't graduate. Students who get federal financial aid have to make "satisfactory academic progress." But if they don't, it's their financial aid on the line — not the university's entry into a major event.

Student-athletes are different: colleges are more responsible for their classroom success than for any other students they enroll. If they don't meet NCAA standards, colleges risk losing scholarships or a spot in the postseason. That's what happened to UConn last year (the team was also hit with sanctions due to recruiting violations).

The NCAA thinks UConn is making progress

Why won't UConn be punished for its 8 percent graduation rate?

The NCAA doesn't actually punish colleges based on graduation rates, but uses a different metric called the "academic progress rate." That's meant to measure whether students are making progress. And UConn has dramatically improved how its current male basketball players perform academically; the 8 percent rate is for athletes who started at UConn between 2003 and 2006. If the academic progress rate trends hold, the graduation rate should be on the rise soon.

The academic progress rate gives students a point for being in good academic standing and an additional point for not dropping out. And by that standard, UConn's new crop of players is doing fine — the university said it submitted a perfect score for the most recent academic year and has taken big strides over the past few years.

The graduation success rate, by contrast, is a historical measurement that looks at how many players graduate within six years of starting college. The only way to find out if a class graduates within six years is to wait six years.

The NCAA's graduation success rate is calculated a little differently than the federal government's college graduation rate. The biggest difference is that athletes who leave to go pro, or who transfer to another college, aren't considered dropouts unless they weren't on track to graduate anyway. That doesn't happen in the federal calculations.

Academic progress rates measure if athletes are likely to graduate. So, with that measure on the rise, there's reason to expect UConn won't be in the graduation rate cellar for long.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 10 2014 at 3:09pm

Calipari has advice for NCAA


http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10760355/kentucky-wildcats-coach-john-calipari-likens-ncaa-dying-soviet-union-new-book

In his new book, Kentucky coach John Calipari likens the NCAA to the dying Soviet Union and admonishes college sports' governing body for not changing with the times, according to a report.

The situation reminds me a little of the Soviet Union in its last years. It was still powerful. It could still hurt you. But you could see it crumbling, and it was just a matter of time before it either changed or ceased to exist.

-- Kentucky coach John Calipari,
from his new book "Players First:
Coaching From the Inside Out"

"The situation reminds me a little of the Soviet Union in its last years. It was still powerful. It could still hurt you. But you could see it crumbling, and it was just a matter of time before it either changed or ceased to exist," Calipari writes in his book, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal.

The outspoken coach has numerous ideas as to how to reform the college experience from the athlete's standpoint, but he says his suggestions have fallen on deaf ears from the NCAA.

"I think we could have gotten somewhere with me as the point man, but the NCAA was not interested in my help," Calipari said, according to the WSJ. "The message I got, between the lines, was, 'No, not you. Not Calipari. We don't want him involved.'"

Among his ideas presented in "Players First: Coaching From the Inside Out," which is scheduled to be published on Tuesday, the WSJ reported that Calipari presents a 13-point plan for NCAA reform. Among them:

• Players should receive stipends of $3,000 to $5,000;

• The NCAA should cover eligible players' insurance premiums;

[+] EnlargeJohn Calipari
Robert Deutsch/USA TODAY SportsAccording to a report in The Wall Street Journal, John Calipari writes in his book that players should have access to lawyers and be compensated to buy formal attire when representing the school, and that families should be able to buy championship rings.

• Athletes should be able to accept loans up to $50,000 against future earnings;

• If a coach leaves an institution, players should be able to transfer from that program without having to sit out a season;

• Athletes should be allowed one round-trip flight home every year.

"I believe the tide is turning. The NCAA will soon have to reform itself or it will not remain the dominant force in college athletics," the WSJ quoted Calipari from the book.

The WSJ reported that Calipari writes that he wants the NCAA to relinquish some of its power -- to conferences, to schools and/or to a new entity that has the power to subpoena. He writes that there is just too much on the NCAA's plate to oversee, and he uses players' meal allotments as an example.

"Is the NCAA afraid we're going to make them fat? Give them too much ice cream and chocolate cake?" he writes. "The whole thing really defies sanity."

But the NCAA still has a place in college athletics, Calipari writes, as long as it changes with the times.

"I don't endorse all of what the NCAA critics say," he writes. "But I don't think the organization -- and the institution of college sports -- would be under such attack if we made some of the common-sense changes that I, and many others, are recommending."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_Steele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 11:16am
Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:

No, I only read what you posted. sorry. Had to go. Did you read what I posted? If you take away rich alumni donations, every team in the country loses money! I had read this for years, but everyone wants to think they make billions! Not true.Or else, I could find nothing that says that is the case!

What you posted is less informative and pretty much what I posted, now that I read it, but again, it tries to lead you to believe something that just isn't so, just like CM.

They take in billions of revenue. The NCAA as a non-profit mind you, takes in billions of dollars. Yes it is not "profit". I think you're getting confused thinking that everyone thinks that the colleges are just sitting on top of billions of unspent dollars.

Of course not.

They, of course, spend it. However, the key point here is that they do not spend it on the athletes who are the whole reason why they have that money in the first place. They instead spend it on new stadiums, on making coaches the highest paid state employees, on locker room upgrades or new salaries for ADs and other administrative officials etc etc. Obviously, some spending would have to be different. It'd probably look more like the professional organizations where players make more than their coaches. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote retiredmilitary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 12:34pm
From what I have read.
 
Let the athletes unionize.
 
Charge them for trainers. Charge them for use of the weight room.
 
After all if they are considered an "employee" of the university the scholarships they receive are "payments" for playing the sport. So that is to be considered income and then can be taxed!!
 
The only people that will get hurt from this are the students that aren't athletes. If you think the university is going to suck up the costs you are living in a dream world.
 
Are there only certain sports that can unionize? Or, if one does they all do?
 
I haven't seen a college athlete looking like they were starving!!
 
A free flight home once a year? Really? That is just silliness!!!
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Originally posted by retiredmilitary retiredmilitary wrote:

From what I have read.
 
Let the athletes unionize.
 
Charge them for trainers. Charge them for use of the weight room.

After all if they are considered an "employee" of the university the scholarships they receive are "payments" for playing the sport. So that is to be considered income and then can be taxed!!
 
The only people that will get hurt from this are the students that aren't athletes. If you think the university is going to suck up the costs you are living in a dream world.
 
Are there only certain sports that can unionize? Or, if one does they all do?
 
I haven't seen a college athlete looking like they were starving!!





So pro athletes pay for team trainers and team facilities or is that a benefit of being an employee?

I'm going with employee benefit. 

Why is something as small as a flight home once a year silliness?  How is it silly if they want to visit their family?

How many college athletes do you know/speak with?

If you are give a stipend do you pay taxes on that money?  Does the employer pay taxes on that money?  I've never had a stipend so I don't know.






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Probably in the contract. So I give you only part of that.
 
If they want to visit their family let them or the family pay for it. Do professional athletes get a free flight home once a year???
 
A employer won't give me a stipend. They want to be an employee then no stipend! They receive payment in the form of an education any other money should be taxed along with their scholarships.
 
Let them do it then if the y want to leave early for the pro's fine them! if they don't hold a B average then fine them. Make them pay for tutors!!
 
The athletes get more than their fair share of freebees so lets see how it works out!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by retiredmilitary retiredmilitary wrote:

A employer won't give me a stipend. They want to be an employee then no stipend!


Plenty of employees receive stipends.  Just because you don't really doesn't mean much.


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Actually, tuition based scholarships are tax free, according to the IRS at least.

I think now you're trying to hold athletes to standards that other college kids don't have. I didn't need a tutor at Seton Hall but if I did, I wouldn't have had to pay for one. I even had a job at the school making money too. Why would an athlete making money have to pay for a tutor? 

Colleges will almost certainly still provide certain things free of charge. They might whine about not being able to do things, but if they want to have a competitive team, a competitive school (academically), or keep students from transferring, they'll still have a lot of the same amenities. 

I've had a stipend before, when I was in the PhD program at George Washington University. They are taxed. I also received a small salary. They combined both a stipend and a salary based on where the money was coming from. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 7:49pm
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Originally posted by retiredmilitary retiredmilitary wrote:


 
I haven't seen a college athlete looking like they were starving!!
 



I have tried to embed this video but I cannot get it to work. 

None the less...Chef Tom Colicchio strongly disagrees with you on this statement.  he made a  documentry about hunger and says there is an epidemic on campuses.

http://www.msnbc.com/jansing-and-co/watch/top-chefs-fight-against-food-stamp-cuts-50009667747


SNAP benefits have been cut. College students don’t qualify for SNAP unless they work 20 hours a week. SNAP benefits can’t be put towards prepared meals, so even if college students were super heroes with part-time jobs, all they’d be able to buy is a bunch of produce to chop on their desks and cook on their hot plates?

Everything is terrible, but Tom Colicchio is here to talk it out with you. He joined Jansing & Company on MSNBC this morning to talk about the increasing need for college campuses to open food banks and Walmart’s new push towards carrying organic products.

(Fun fact: Walmart’s “organic” labels will be in the prepared food section, not produce. They don’t have the supply chain to support carrying organic produce at superstore-level volume. Obviously.)

Check out Colicchio’s appearance below.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MFD50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 9:09pm
I knew of one student that got a full ride scholarship and when that was done got free tuition, board, and  $600 a month in cash for assisting the coaches and also could have gotten food stamps because he qualified based on his income. He did not file for the food stamps because the college fed him and he said he had more than he needed. His roommate however did take the food stamps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmsquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2014 at 10:52pm
I don't see a problem with taking assistance if you qualify for it.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MFD50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2014 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by cmsquare cmsquare wrote:

I don't see a problem with taking assistance if you qualify for it.




 
Even if you do not need it? That is just pure greed!
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I'm not sure it's for one person to decide what another person "needs"

Especially on $600/month.   That's $150/week. 

either you qualify for assistance or you do not.

If we are talking about dining common food I would have taken the stamps too.  It can't get much worse.

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I found this a very interesting read>
 
 
Hence they are STUDENT-athletes. NOT Athlete-students!!
 
Ha CM try Military food!! I would have rather ate at the University than in a dining facility!!
 
Think about it One person (unless they are married) $150 a week. I feed 6 on $200 a week. They need to learn to budget their money and stop drinking so much!!
 
Did you see those suits those boys were wearing? Hmmmm how did they pay for those??
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Are they student athletes? What makes you think that? 

You're basing this off one anecdote. One person supposedly made $600 a month. Was that year round? Did every athlete make that? You guys are looking at small cases and then applying it to everyone. 

Look, athletes are typically not starving in the same sense that a homeless person might, but colleges and the NCAA make BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF OF THEIR LIKENESS AND THEIR PHYSICAL ABILITIES!!! THEY MAKE ZERO!!!! 

That is the issue here. Other people profiting off of their labor with no basically no compensation.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blueblood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2014 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:


Look, athletes are typically not starving in the same sense that a homeless person might, but colleges and the NCAA make BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF OF THEIR LIKENESS AND THEIR PHYSICAL ABILITIES!!! THEY MAKE ZERO!!!  


I've been waiting, going on two weeks now, for you to show me the money, and so far, no one has.

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"!


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Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:



I've been waiting, going on two weeks now, for you to show me the money, and so far, no one has.


Multiple people have explained this to you multiple times.
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Originally posted by blueblood blueblood wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_Steele Matt_Steele wrote:


Look, athletes are typically not starving in the same sense that a homeless person might, but colleges and the NCAA make BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF OF THEIR LIKENESS AND THEIR PHYSICAL ABILITIES!!! THEY MAKE ZERO!!!  


I've been waiting, going on two weeks now, for you to show me the money, and so far, no one has.

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"!

I've shown you multiple times. If you don't want to believe it exists, I can't help you. 

You are possibly the only person I've seen anywhere on the internet arguing that the NCAA and colleges don't make billions of dollars off of these athletes. You try to twist the argument saying that colleges don't make a profit. I agree, most of them are not making excess money. I've never argued that. However, it is a huge multi-billion dollar industry that exists only because of athletes typically between the ages of 18-22 enrolled in a college who get paid $0 of those billions.
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