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Is Climate Change our Biggest Problem?

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John Beagle View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec 01 2015 at 9:45am

Published on Nov 30, 2015

Is man-made climate change our biggest problem? Are the wildfires, droughts and hurricanes we see on the news an omen of even worse things to come? The United Nations and many political leaders think so and want to spend trillions of tax dollars to reverse the warming trend. Are they right? Will the enormous cost justify the gain? Economist Bjorn Lomborg, director of the Copenhagen Consensus Center, explains the key issues and reaches some sobering conclusions.

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MElass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MElass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 01 2015 at 3:05pm
Also a really good "Climate change" article in Nov. 28 Wall Street Journal.
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John Beagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 01 2015 at 3:53pm


I think other things are more urgent than climate change.
The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.
-Joseph Campbell
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John Beagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 01 2015 at 3:54pm
The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.
-Joseph Campbell
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dad0f3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 8:06am
This is an excellent article that I would highly recommend anyone who is even slightly inclined to think climate change is anthropogenic or that it's any sort of urgent problem.   Fort perspective, it's written by a left-wing Democrat.  He tackles the issue of science by consensus which is a HUGE issue in my opinion.  I can't seem to get this link to post as an actual hyperlink.  John, can you help?  

https://medium.com/@pullnews/what-i-learned-about-climate-change-the-science-is-not-settled-1e3ae4712ace#.lhvw5s574





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vegasmayor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vegasmayor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 12:06pm
One time I heard about a preacher who would only hold church service for his most devout attendees.  That way he was sure to get the most hearty Amens and absolutely no dissension. 

Reminds me a lot of the "political" posts on The Voice these days.
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dad0f3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 3:36pm
Hey Mayor!  That's why you're still here, right?  We haven't managed to run you off yet. : )  

Seriously, I applaud you for sticking around and not throwing a tantrum because you don't like the way the owner of a private site manages the users/content.   So have you read that article I posted out of curiosity?  I'd be interested in your opinion.
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vegasmayor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vegasmayor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 4:15pm
Hello, dadof3!  Long time no talk.  You guys can't get rid of me that easily.  I may not always (or even usually) agree with the masses on here but that's no reason to take my ball and go home.  Disagreement can and should lead to healthy discussion.  Unfortunately, many opposing voices have either left this forum or have been made to leave against their will, I have no idea which.  Heck, even old Bobby Preston seems to have flown the coop!

I have read some of the article you posted but not all.  It's quite lengthy and I am technically supposed to be working.  I will wait to comment until I read it in it's entirety.  Of course I'm a little skeptical just because it's not written by any sort of environmental scientist.  I, personally, could write on any number of subjects but that surely doesn't make me an expert.  But alas, let me read it and get back with you at a later time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 4:30pm
Yeah, I agree.  I honestly like back and forth as long as it's relatively respectful.  I don't know for sure what happened, but I believe cmsquare got the axe and I'm assuming that Matt and crew left out of protest.  But I could be wrong.  I have no issue with cmsquare getting blown up.  This is a private site and the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here.  John, would you care to clarify exactly what happened here please?  I'd like to know as well.  

Anyhow, yes, please read with an open mind and don't commit the genetic fallacy just because the author isn't a scientist!  Big smile
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MElass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MElass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 02 2015 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by dad0f3 dad0f3 wrote:

Yeah, I agree.  I honestly like back and forth as long as it's relatively respectful.  I don't know for sure what happened, but I believe cmsquare got the axe and I'm assuming that Matt and crew left out of protest.  But I could be wrong.  I have no issue with cmsquare getting blown up.  This is a private site and the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here.  John, would you care to clarify exactly what happened here please?  I'd like to know as well.  

Anyhow, yes, please read with an open mind and don't commit the genetic fallacy just because the author isn't a scientist!  Big smile



Good response! I guess because I agree with you in theory as well as in principle. A good debate is always welcomed and informative/thought provoking as long as a respondent is not "all-knowing/self-righteous" or"smarmy".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vegasmayor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 03 2015 at 8:58am
dadof3,

I read the entire article you linked.  Great stuff.  Truly a well written piece by a man who has obviously done his homework.  I'm glad you shared it.

I have a few takeaways, but let me preface by saying I may not be the right guy to speak on this.  I'm not a chicken-little type running around screaming about global warming.  I'm admittedly barely informed on the subject so I would never speak as if I had the facts.  I'm more the guy who posts rebuttals when I hear the folks (global warming deniers) that I think "doth protest too much" and also are very uninformed like I am.  The fact is, there is SO much science at play here that I highly doubt anyone on a Monroe, Ohio forum can speak as if they are an authority.  That's my only beef with some of the posts I've seen.  My message would be: unless this is your life work, don't pretend you have the answers and are certain of your position.  

Takeaways:
I like how the author didn't completely deny warming or the fact that man plays some part.  He's quick to point out that these issues may not be near as severe as some say, but he doesn't deny them completely.  That's a sign of intelligence.

The whole explanation of CO2 was fascinating.  However, it could be problematic for the Young Earth Creationists or even those who hold to a loosely literal translation of the bible.  Typically, what I have found is that the extremely literal bible believing people are also very passionate about denying or discrediting global warming.  Not sure of the correlation, but that's been my experience.  And since most of the scientific explanation of CO2 and temperature change relies on looking back thousands or millions of years, those folks have a conundrum.  One of those, "you can't have it both ways" situations.  You either use the long term science of CO2 to defend your denial of global warming, or you use a very short term (scientifically speaking) set of data which carries far less weight and doesn't really make as strong as a case.

I could go on and on but this post is starting to read like a book.  All in all, I love the work this man has essentially done for me and I really enjoyed reading the piece.  I would stay I still stand somewhere in the middle on this subject.  Do I think global warming is a problem?  Yes.  Do I think it's as bad as some would have us believe?  No.  Do I think we need to throw money at it?  Yes.  Do I think we need to throw hundreds of billions at it?  No.  Do I think we should at least research it to death and solve any problems that need to be solved and not kick the can down the road so my great-great-great-great-grandchildren are left to solve a potentially much bigger problem?  YES.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2015 at 2:38pm

Mayor -  Glad you liked it my friend.  Thanks for taking the time to read and I really appreciate your opinions. 

I thought it was really well done and the references are quite good.  There have always been two things about climate change that bothered me:  the degree of confidence in the scientific conclusions and the high level of  hysteria from the true believers.  Listen, science is wrong all the time.  That’s not a knock, it’s just a statement of fact.  I get really nervous when lay people start touting consensus as hard proof of anything and when scientists and gatekeepers of the educational institutions actively seek to stifle dissenting and critical research. Climate change is rife with those things.  

Throw in the monetary interests of 3rd world countries looking for handouts to “comply” with regulations, politicians looking for new sources of revenue and opportunists like Al Gore seeking to cash in on carbon credits and the whole enterprise becomes very suspect.  And that’s not to mention the apparent corrupting influence of money on research and data.  People who don’t think money plays a large part in what gets researched and what doesn’t are fooling themselves.  There is no money in going against the established science grain. 

 Anyhow, I think it’s important that everybody keep a clear head and open mind and stop calling people with a different viewpoint names like “Climate Change Deniers”.  That is dangerous stuff in my humble opinion.  

If it matters, seek the truth.
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MElass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MElass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 11 2015 at 7:25am
Bernie Sanders thinks we should "bring 'climate change deniers' to justice", so be careful what you post. You may be subject to prosecution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Max HC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 11 2015 at 1:48pm
God bless the climate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dad0f3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 11 2015 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Max HC Max HC wrote:

God bless the climate.
Father Max, so glad you dropped in with a blessing..
If it matters, seek the truth.
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